Basstreiber auswahlen visaton tiw200xs vs other

[stimpies]

Hello,

Sorry but I can't write german very well (reading is ok).

I'm looking for a very thight and controlled bassdriver to use in a closed box to 250-300hz.

I want a cabinet as slim (nicht weit) as possible:
-I was in doubt:

-The eton 11" hexacone: but it's not slim
-two visaton tiw200xs parallel

A friend of mine says quality of the eton is better and it will provide more controlled bas because of lower qts???
I know the etons are used in expensive speakers like the avalons.

But I'm open minded and may want to give the visatons a try because they look so nice

How are the distortion and waterfall compared to the other drivers in the range iI want to use up to 500hz?

Sincerely
Wim

[walwal]

Hi,

what about 2 Visaton GF 200?
They have a lower qts than the XS and a higher output.

Alternative one TIW 250 XS.

[doctrin]

But they aren`t slim enough right? For deep, clean and controlled bass is the TIW200 very good. Some time ago there was a similar thread -> here ya go http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread....threadid=13583

Best Regards

[walwal]

Both of them, GF and XS have a diameter of 222 mm and are fine woofers, which of them you choose, depends on the SPL of the other speakers (mid and tweeter).

The Eton is more expensive and has lower x-max.

[stimpies]

Hello,

Thanks for the answers.

-Is it fact or fiction?: the fast or slow bass: or does it just depend on a clean waterfall and on the rest of the spectrum, and things like low group delay.

-The TIW200XS seems to fit my requirements in terms of size, sensitity, and volume used .

-Do you have any measurements where the TIW200XS is compared to other drivers of that size (scanspeak, peerless, etc) iin waterfall and harmonic distortion?



Sincerely.

[walwal]

The fast bass is fiction, it depends on a fast midspeaker.

[doctrin]

Absolutly right, its all psycho-acoustic. If you want you can ask Visaton about a waterfalldiagramm with higher resolution.

regards

[GabbaGandalf]

measuring the delay time of a subwoofer makes not much sense, because your listenng room will add its resonances to it, so the delay time can be completely different. that means that your room will have a much greater effect on the sound than the choice of a woofer.

[doctrin]

yeah right, but he wants data to compare, so its ok to ask about an waterfalldiagramm done by visaton

[stimpies]

Hello,

Indeed, some data to compare would be nice:
Here in Belgium it's not easy to buy literature like k&t etc. In fact there's very little DIY (not only audio, also oldtimer motorbikes, cars etc) over here compared to our neighbour countries like Germany and the Netherlands.


Greetings,

Wim

[doctrin]

so ok, ask eton, visaton etc. for data

regards

[UweG]

I don't have a waterfall diagram of the TIW200XS, but I would believe, that you cannot see anything relevant there. Up to 500 Hz I would not expect to see any severe problem even at low cost drivers like W200S. In my opinion there are two main issues for the quality of such a bass driver.
First comes the ability to move high volume of air without to much nonlinearity. In this issue the GF200 is a good choice and the TIW200XS is absolutely first choice because of its very very long moving coil. In an article of, I believ it was "Hobby Hifi", only a 700€ car subwoofer topped the TIW200XS regarding linear cone movement.
The second issue in my opinion is the way, the frequency response goes down to deep frequencies. An early beginning and very flat fall of the frequency response is often assumed to be a fast bass. Closed speakers with low Qtc (That means Q of the driver inside the box!) match this issue nearly perfectly. The Qts of the chassis is only relevant as it influences the Q of the closed box. The biggest disadvantage of low Qtc boxes is their not very deep lower corner frequency. It's not a "fat" bass coming out of such boxes.
Very similar frequency responses, but with lower corner frequency can be achieved by using vented boxes with very low tuning frequency. If the total volume of the box is not limited to small, this might be an alternative solution.

[doctrin]

Yeah and i think the TIW is a good canditate for small CB or low tuned BR ...

CB: 21Liters -> -10dB ~30Hz (very good)
BR: tuned to 20Hz and 35Liters -10dB 22Hz (amazing)

so you only have to choose wich concept you will use

@ Uwe, are ya shure about the 700€ woofer.....tremendous

[VISATON]

Ich antworte auf Deutsch, da Wim das ja auch lesen kann (und mir die Antwort leichter fällt). Ich kann die Meinung von UweG voll bestätigen: Anhand des Wasserfall-Diagramms kann man bis 500 Hz eigentlich gar nichts über die Qualität eines 20er-Tieftöners erkennen. So schlecht kann eine Membran kaum sein, dass sie bei diesen tiefen Frequenzen schon Partialschwingungen aufweisen könnte. @ Wim: Die E-Mail-Anfrage nach dem Wasserfall-Diagramm kann ich hier schon befriedigen, weil es ja schon auf der Interentseite ist (die Klirrfaktormessung folgt per Mail später):

Wasserfall TIW 200 XS

Wie man sieht, sieht man bis 500 Hz gar nichts! Da ist das Ausschwingen des TIW 200 XS (und fast aller anderen guten
Tieftöner) wesentlich besser als das der Hörraumes.

Wie UweG auch schon geschrieben hat, ist der sich im Gehäuse ergebenen Amplitudenfrequenzgang die entscheidene Sache, wobei der Hörraum auch einen ganz wesentlichen Beitrag dazu besteuert. Wenn man zwei TIW 200 XS in 70 l einbaut, erhält man etwas mehr Pegel zwischen 100 und 500 Hz im Vergleich mit einem TIW 250. Aber die beiden TIW 200 XS bringen deutlich mehr Tiefbass. Wenn man Tiefbass sehr mag, ist das eine tolle Sache.

[doctrin]

Ja die TIWs sind was feines

...die Klirrmessungen würden mich aber auch interessieren
so oder so wären Klirrmessungen nett anzusehen, zumindest von vielen Visatonchassis. Aber ich denke diese auf der Seite zu veröffentlichen würde nur Leute die nix damit anfangen können verunsichern.

MfG

P.S.: Mich interessieren Klirmessungen trotzdem