TIW 200XS quality from 500Hz down?

[Virtalahde]

Hello & greetings from Finland!

I'm sorry to communicate in English but my Deutsch is terrible.

I have a 3-way design in the plans and after a long search I finally found Visaton and especially its TIW 200XS driver. I need a 8" driver that I could cross somewhere between 300Hz-500Hz to a 4" or 5" midrange.

In this application, I would use two of these bass drivers per side in sealed cabinets and use Linkwitz transform to bring the -3dB down to 35hz or so.

The TIW 200XS looks very suitable for LT due to its large xmax, but I see it recommended as a small subwoofer driver only? The GF 200 seems to be more commonly used in similar 3-way applications and even the TIW 250 was used in some Visaton kit crossed at 200Hz.

So.. Is there a reason to not use the TIW 200XS up to 500Hz, apart from the slightly rising response and the high QMS?

Thank you

[GabbaGandalf]

Hello!
due to its heavy membrane the tiw 200 may not offer so much details in the lower mids as the gf 200, so there might be a little loss of fine dynamics and resolution.
this is the reason why most of the realized crossover frequencies for the tiw are lower than 500hz.

if your midrange driver is a midwoofer you will have no problems lowering down the crossover frequency to about 120 to 200 hz.

greetings to finland!

[Loiti]

Hi,

the TIW 200 XS is usable up to 700Hz. But the speaker is not very loud, if you want something better I recommend the TIW 300


Mfg Stefan

[doctrin]

.....

yeah the TIW200XS is a very good Speaker (some say it`s the best 8") and it is true that the SPL past 70Hz isnt rising like the spl of the GF200. But if you have a good Ampfilfier with a high current specification you have no problems with these.
I`ll use them to,very nice drivers

If you have any questions or you wanna an information exchange, I`ll be right here because I wann build a 3 way Loudspeaker with two TIWs ,too.

I traveled Finnland 2 years ago, very nice Country with very nice people

regards

[raw]

due to its heavy membrane the tiw 200 may not offer so much details in the lower mids as the gf 200

A heavy membrane causes just a low SPL.

I think there's no problem in using it up to 500Hz. Even at large sound levels the doppler distortions or other non linear distortions will be beneath auditory threshold - I think.

The reason why it's recommended for subwoofers is just the low SPL. Subwoofers are commonly active - speakers not (yet?).

[doctrin]

Absolutly right, the TIW showed its HiFi Qualities at its best in the VisaTom. When you tune the BR to a low frequency, there is no Problem with the bass upper than 100-150Hz. And with CB there is no Problem, although the tiw200 is made for BR.

Regards

[Virtalahde]

Wow, thank you!

Yes, it seems like the GF200 is louder indeed and has less moving mass. This is actually pretty important, the middriver is going to be a true middriver with lightweight paper cone and lightning fast dynamics, so it might be easier to mate with a tad quicker woofer.

Also, now that I look at it, the TIW200XS seems to start the cone break-ups slightly after 1k, maybe at 1k2 or so. The cone must be just better damped since the break-up isn't as obvious as in GF200, where it's happening first at 3k or so. This is important since I want to cross at least two octaves below the breakups.

SPL in general isn't much as an issue here since I'm going all active and using two woofers. Gotta run a few tests with the GF200 parameters and see what kind of SPL's and cone excursions I get when I apply some Linkwitz transform..

[doctrin]

Ok the TIWs moving mass is bigger, but this isn`t as important as other parameters.
Here the Visatom Link ->
VisaTom
Here Klaus Matschy tried both, AL200 and TIW200 in the Visatom.
Also the fast TI100 and MHT12 are used.
I don`t know if you can understand german, but i`m going to try to translate some important Quotations :

"It was surprising that the TIW200, designed as subwoofer-driver, made such a good show. He sounded very dry and let the bassdrum punch even at low volume. ....However, we couldn`t discover disadvantages, like other "heavy" subs with high xmax, rather the opposite was the case."

"I don`t wanna get in superlatives, but i think thats it, the upper bass is a little bit more "shy" as with the Al200, but its clearer and a little bit better."


"I have to say the TIW sounds great.....until now my ears are saying that it is an amazing good bass driver!!! You can nearly forget about 10 inch drivers."


The upper bass is more quiet as with the AL200, thats because of the Crossover, the TIWs are a little bit "sensitive" in this way. At the end i will post a link to "my" frequency-chart and there is no problem like this. Also you use active crossover where its no problem to cut the TIWs.

[IMG][/IMG]

This is an old pic, but as you can see there is linear bass...The impedance isn`t important for you because you are going active

best regards

[Virtalahde]

OK, I am convinced now. The 200XS is definately worth a try, and using two means shared work, so..

Thanks for taking your time posting that.

[doctrin]

Ah no Problem, i hope you`ll be happy with your loudspeaker...when you ready you can post your results. Me and the others would appreciate this

best regards